He understands the illusion of choice very well; when there really is no say at all in anything that mattered, claiming otherwise could still be a useful tool for control. When everything his older self knows and loves hinges on those decisions, if they truly were so important, then inevitably he'd be pushed to make those same choices. Gently, harshly - it wouldn't matter much so long as the end result was desired. He wouldn't refuse for obstinacy alone, much spoken about was more valuable than his decisions and he's had a lifetime of knowing things that needed to be done would be personally painful.
An actual choice is harder to accept.
The unease wasn't gone, not about his future nor about the changes going on, that tiny array of unwanted scales thoroughly unwanted. He couldn't have both safety in relying on Sephiroth's protection from the curiosity of scientists if he returned with the smattering of scales, not while also expecting to have the same future that was the other's past. "They don't stay removed anyway." It's a displeased grumble, a safer subject than the rest. "It's pointless. I can feel them coming back." But they itch while growing back in, had itched when appearing to begin with.
But being rid of them was the only way he'd get to the point he's supposed to reach.
"Then leave them," Sephiroth says, which he feels is a perfectly reasonable response under the circumstances. "If you feel the need to take some kind of action against these changes, I suggest research. Within reason," he adds, a touch hastily, remembering his own deep dives desperately seeking information without food or sleep. "Sacrificing your own health is not productive, and I don't wish to have to drag you out of the library to enforce basic self-care." Though the implication is that, if his younger self makes it necessary, he's nonetheless prepared to. "But it would be far better to seek an effective way to stop or reverse these changes than to keep pursuing destructive, ineffective ways."
A beat. "However, you need to also be prepared to accept the possibility that the solution you want may not exist. Or that the best way to weather this is to allow it to pass naturally. Assuming the legend of those heroes is accurate to our own experiences, then to be able to be either fully human or fully dragon would involve deepening our bonds with these dragons, not fighting them. There isn't any proof that will work for us...but we also can't disprove it without testing it."
"..I'm sure I would remember necessities such as food and rest," he says, utterly and completely wrong in his confidence about that fact. It's going to be a lifetime problem that keeps reoccurring, but for now he's still under the impression it won't be. At some point he'll have free reign over a library or data center and find out otherwise.
At least he's well used to things he wants not being possible.
The pointlessness of removing something that'll simply grow back isn't lost on him at least. "Hoping for the best while not preparing for the worst seems naive." How does one prepare for this kind of thing? How do you prepare to become a literal monster? "...I know Wutai's successfully tamed behemoths. I don't know if anyone's tried to tame dragons."
"From personal experience, I assure you that you would not." Sephiroth's tone has a touch of dry humor in it. He wants to make it clear that while he has no faith in his younger self in this area, it's because he knows it's a weakness of his. That there's no shame in having or admitting to such a weakness when they both share it.
"As for preparing for the worst...do you actually have any preparations that could possibly be made? Do you even know how bad it could be, never mind what preparations would be necessary?" Sephiroth shakes his head. "It's one thing to plan for a worst case scenario when it is possible to plan, and when you know what the worst case scenario is...but in this, I don't think either of those things is true. You're dwelling on anxieties when there's not really any positive action that can be taken to address them. That's not pragmatic, it's a self-destructive distraction. Hoping for the best doesn't prepare you either, but at least you won't be strung out and emotionally exhausted for whatever comes next, so it's still more beneficial than imagining nightmare outcomes you can't do anything to prevent, whether you foresee them or not."
He gives his younger self a slight shoulder squeeze. "As for taming dragons...it may not be necessary. But I suppose only time will tell."
That sure was a barely-there grumble under his breath; he's still pretty sure he wouldn't need to be dragged out of a library just to do things like eat or sleep, but the little new niggling doubt that maybe he wouldn't is annoying enough to earn a mutter.
Being vaguely disgruntled over the reassurance that he would forget basic needs, when he already occasionally forgot basic needs when sufficiently distracted (but not as yet, avoiding meals) wasn't enough to shake the disquiet of the rest, and he remains quiet for a minute or two, slowly piecing together the why of it.
It means admitting things he'd rather not. But if he couldn't anywhere else, surely he could here. "I can't .. do nothing, and hope it works out. I don't know how you can. Sitting idly by and pretending there isn't a problem never works, won't make me stop thinking about it and won't make it less terrifying." Fear has been beaten out of them both long since, according to the aides in the science department. But he's pretty sure it hadn't. "You know having someone say, 'well don't dwell on it' not only isn't possible, it tends to make you think about it more, not less. Any kind of preparation at all is at least action, and keeping that energy moving in some direction instead of ... waiting to explode."
But DOES he have preparations that can be made? "I have some ideas." It's added rather quietly to the rest; he hasn't had long to think of any but something was better than nothing. "I won't know how well they might work until it's too late to change course though."
"I've learned there are things well beyond my or anyone's control," Sephiroth replies, rather softly. "Though, more even that that...I've learned how finite and precious the worthwhile things in life are. I could tear myself to pieces trying to avoid the worst case scenario, knowing that it may well find me anyway and render all my efforts useless...or I could spend quality time with the people I love, while I have the chance. Considered that way, the choice is obvious. For you...you struggle with that because you haven't formed such deep connections yet, haven't found people whose company is enough to pull you from your fears for the future."
A pause. "You realize you don't need to wait for your Angeal and Genesis to make friends, you know. Whatever happiness you can find in the present, you ought to. And in many cases, it's not possible to build towards a happier future without some efforts in the present. I worry that you are so focused on trying to prevent something you have no proof will ever happen, that you couldn't prevent even if it does happen, that you will entirely isolate yourself. A story in which a person strives to avoid tragedy to such an extent that they remain forever fearful and unhappy...that story is a tragedy still, whether the person avoids catastrophe or not."
The silence that falls is resignation, not agreement. Whatever lessons he'll learn in the future, in his own past he's learned that there is a point where discussion becomes meaningless, where he's certain the words he's said are heard and simply dismissed in favor of being treated like the child he knew he resembled, to be soothed by a 'there there' and some distraction tossed his way.
It sounded like the lessons of the laboratory, simply extended into other fields. Maybe nothing can be done ... so give up, because fighting back will hurt more.
Maybe the future's unpleasant, so don't bother trying to change it.
Surrender. Be content in helplessness.
At some point in his eventual twenty five to thirty years maybe the lesson becomes so deeply hardwired that the idea of struggling against anything must be rationalized away .. or as close to rational as it can get when the excuse used is of all things, friendship.
It's not about friendship at all, the realization bitter and unpleasant but at least familiar. It's about not putting up a fight, because that's what they're taught to do when it's not a battlefield.
"...Okay." It takes a while to form the lone word, quiet, but it's there.
"I don't need to ask if I've convinced you." It's obvious he hasn't, failure written large - not in his younger self's face or voice, necessarily, although neither is happy and that would be evidence enough, but on a wavelength Sephiroth can't even define. "And I never doubted you would do as you were intending to regardless of what I said."
Because that is, in fact, how it goes. His younger self thinks he's complacent, failing to perceive that Sephiroth is in fact desperately trying to work positive change at every turn, with him, and failing at almost every hurdle. The victories are few and far between, and usually so small that it's not likely they'll change anything significant. A familiar pattern. Small, shining moments in a vast, dark sky.
A train can only run on its rails. Sephiroth has never truly had the chance to change things for the better. He has never been able to improve his own life. Misery and joy are given and snatched away purely at the whims of the universe, and his own actions are, as always, utterly futile. It would seem he can't even improve his younger self's life much...and that attempting to do so is seen as some sort of contemptible capitulation that his younger self has wearily given up trying to talk him out of.
He wonders just how many failures and losses his younger self will go through before he gives up on even the illusion of control. He no longer remembers at what point he himself did. But he doubts that, with his younger self's refusal to reconsider his priorities, that his younger self will avoid any of them. His own quiet dread, for years, that he would lose Angeal and Genesis, and all his efforts to prevent that, hadn't saved them. Fear and planning, without any real control, mean nothing. His younger self will stay stressed and miserable and there's not a damned thing Sephiroth can do about it, perhaps ever could do about it, and losing esteem in the eyes of himself is his punishment for trying.
He can't even be upset. Just tired. At any age, he never learns.
"Did you wish to leave?" He can't imagine why his younger self would wish to stay right now.
The lens it puts on everything is a dark one. All the decisions he's told he can make, all the worthwhile things he can do - in the end, meaningless. Pointless. An illusion of choice when he can affect nothing, do nothing about any of it except brace himself for the inevitable. His older self's efforts, simply some measure to try to make it easier to bear. That too is a kindness in its way, instead of fostering any hope of something truly being different.
The single week or so of being here on this foreign planet hasn't changed anything, couldn't change anything.
He isn't ready yet to consider throwing the train off its rails entirely. Maybe that would change, in the coming weeks and months. He has no friends to lose, no dear ones who can be threatened to make him comply, and that may eventually be a strength instead of a weakness. With nothing to lose, there's no need to fear failure.
The tiny row of dark scales along his collarbone is rubbed again, almost absently. They would multiply as time passed, far more horrific and painful changes waiting than such a minor thing. But for now it's a little trail of almost-black.
"....I think." He was here first, this was a good place to hide. "..I'd like to stay a little longer." It might be an illusion, but it's what he has. Nothing need be said. Plenty has been already. He can take what comfort he can from contact otherwise forbidden from crawling nerves and bad associations.
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timeasmymeasure
this is tougher cuz a week after arrival instead of more time to adjust.
Date: 2024-11-19 10:54 am (UTC)An actual choice is harder to accept.
The unease wasn't gone, not about his future nor about the changes going on, that tiny array of unwanted scales thoroughly unwanted. He couldn't have both safety in relying on Sephiroth's protection from the curiosity of scientists if he returned with the smattering of scales, not while also expecting to have the same future that was the other's past. "They don't stay removed anyway." It's a displeased grumble, a safer subject than the rest. "It's pointless. I can feel them coming back." But they itch while growing back in, had itched when appearing to begin with.
But being rid of them was the only way he'd get to the point he's supposed to reach.
no subject
Date: 2024-11-22 12:10 am (UTC)A beat. "However, you need to also be prepared to accept the possibility that the solution you want may not exist. Or that the best way to weather this is to allow it to pass naturally. Assuming the legend of those heroes is accurate to our own experiences, then to be able to be either fully human or fully dragon would involve deepening our bonds with these dragons, not fighting them. There isn't any proof that will work for us...but we also can't disprove it without testing it."
no subject
Date: 2024-11-24 01:54 am (UTC)At least he's well used to things he wants not being possible.
The pointlessness of removing something that'll simply grow back isn't lost on him at least. "Hoping for the best while not preparing for the worst seems naive." How does one prepare for this kind of thing? How do you prepare to become a literal monster? "...I know Wutai's successfully tamed behemoths. I don't know if anyone's tried to tame dragons."
There's a whole franchise about that actually Sephlet
Date: 2024-11-27 12:49 pm (UTC)"As for preparing for the worst...do you actually have any preparations that could possibly be made? Do you even know how bad it could be, never mind what preparations would be necessary?" Sephiroth shakes his head. "It's one thing to plan for a worst case scenario when it is possible to plan, and when you know what the worst case scenario is...but in this, I don't think either of those things is true. You're dwelling on anxieties when there's not really any positive action that can be taken to address them. That's not pragmatic, it's a self-destructive distraction. Hoping for the best doesn't prepare you either, but at least you won't be strung out and emotionally exhausted for whatever comes next, so it's still more beneficial than imagining nightmare outcomes you can't do anything to prevent, whether you foresee them or not."
He gives his younger self a slight shoulder squeeze. "As for taming dragons...it may not be necessary. But I suppose only time will tell."
that's training! gotta tame them first!!
Date: 2024-11-28 01:43 am (UTC)Being vaguely disgruntled over the reassurance that he would forget basic needs, when he already occasionally forgot basic needs when sufficiently distracted (but not as yet, avoiding meals) wasn't enough to shake the disquiet of the rest, and he remains quiet for a minute or two, slowly piecing together the why of it.
It means admitting things he'd rather not. But if he couldn't anywhere else, surely he could here. "I can't .. do nothing, and hope it works out. I don't know how you can. Sitting idly by and pretending there isn't a problem never works, won't make me stop thinking about it and won't make it less terrifying." Fear has been beaten out of them both long since, according to the aides in the science department. But he's pretty sure it hadn't. "You know having someone say, 'well don't dwell on it' not only isn't possible, it tends to make you think about it more, not less. Any kind of preparation at all is at least action, and keeping that energy moving in some direction instead of ... waiting to explode."
But DOES he have preparations that can be made? "I have some ideas." It's added rather quietly to the rest; he hasn't had long to think of any but something was better than nothing. "I won't know how well they might work until it's too late to change course though."
no subject
Date: 2024-12-13 01:12 pm (UTC)A pause. "You realize you don't need to wait for your Angeal and Genesis to make friends, you know. Whatever happiness you can find in the present, you ought to. And in many cases, it's not possible to build towards a happier future without some efforts in the present. I worry that you are so focused on trying to prevent something you have no proof will ever happen, that you couldn't prevent even if it does happen, that you will entirely isolate yourself. A story in which a person strives to avoid tragedy to such an extent that they remain forever fearful and unhappy...that story is a tragedy still, whether the person avoids catastrophe or not."
no subject
Date: 2024-12-13 02:26 pm (UTC)It sounded like the lessons of the laboratory, simply extended into other fields. Maybe nothing can be done ... so give up, because fighting back will hurt more.
Maybe the future's unpleasant, so don't bother trying to change it.
Surrender. Be content in helplessness.
At some point in his eventual twenty five to thirty years maybe the lesson becomes so deeply hardwired that the idea of struggling against anything must be rationalized away .. or as close to rational as it can get when the excuse used is of all things, friendship.
It's not about friendship at all, the realization bitter and unpleasant but at least familiar. It's about not putting up a fight, because that's what they're taught to do when it's not a battlefield.
"...Okay." It takes a while to form the lone word, quiet, but it's there.
no subject
Date: 2024-12-13 03:09 pm (UTC)Because that is, in fact, how it goes. His younger self thinks he's complacent, failing to perceive that Sephiroth is in fact desperately trying to work positive change at every turn, with him, and failing at almost every hurdle. The victories are few and far between, and usually so small that it's not likely they'll change anything significant. A familiar pattern. Small, shining moments in a vast, dark sky.
A train can only run on its rails. Sephiroth has never truly had the chance to change things for the better. He has never been able to improve his own life. Misery and joy are given and snatched away purely at the whims of the universe, and his own actions are, as always, utterly futile. It would seem he can't even improve his younger self's life much...and that attempting to do so is seen as some sort of contemptible capitulation that his younger self has wearily given up trying to talk him out of.
He wonders just how many failures and losses his younger self will go through before he gives up on even the illusion of control. He no longer remembers at what point he himself did. But he doubts that, with his younger self's refusal to reconsider his priorities, that his younger self will avoid any of them. His own quiet dread, for years, that he would lose Angeal and Genesis, and all his efforts to prevent that, hadn't saved them. Fear and planning, without any real control, mean nothing. His younger self will stay stressed and miserable and there's not a damned thing Sephiroth can do about it, perhaps ever could do about it, and losing esteem in the eyes of himself is his punishment for trying.
He can't even be upset. Just tired. At any age, he never learns.
"Did you wish to leave?" He can't imagine why his younger self would wish to stay right now.
no subject
Date: 2024-12-13 03:36 pm (UTC)The single week or so of being here on this foreign planet hasn't changed anything, couldn't change anything.
He isn't ready yet to consider throwing the train off its rails entirely. Maybe that would change, in the coming weeks and months. He has no friends to lose, no dear ones who can be threatened to make him comply, and that may eventually be a strength instead of a weakness. With nothing to lose, there's no need to fear failure.
The tiny row of dark scales along his collarbone is rubbed again, almost absently. They would multiply as time passed, far more horrific and painful changes waiting than such a minor thing. But for now it's a little trail of almost-black.
"....I think." He was here first, this was a good place to hide. "..I'd like to stay a little longer." It might be an illusion, but it's what he has. Nothing need be said. Plenty has been already. He can take what comfort he can from contact otherwise forbidden from crawling nerves and bad associations.